Training Comparison

[jay-]

Training Comparison

Just to note, I will be updating this as often as possible when I get new training regimes to test out. I am looking for more schemes to test, so if you think you have a good scheme and would like me to test it I would gladly run it through my save game and record the results

I originally did this back for CM 03/04 and when The Dugout had the old board (can't find the old thread but it's on the old board somewhere) and it seems to help some people so I thought I'd make another training comparison for Football Manager 2008 based on the 8.0.2 patch since training appears to have been fixed. The compaison is done in Microsoft Excel 2007 and basically training regimes for youth and adult are ran through a save game which is always the same for all schemes and I record the data over a period of 6 months to show which regime has given the most increases, most injuries, most decreases and so forth.

You can see an example image of the spreadsheet below, and the link to download the spreadsheet is at the bottom of this page although you will need Excel 2007 to view it properly. Also note that the Segoe UI font is used which is the Vista core system font, so bare that in mind if it doesn't appear correctly on your machine.

Example Image

Spoiler:

I currently have, at the time of creating this message, testing 4 regimes which are the CMFrenzy Adult, Tugs 2008 Youth and the built-in adult and youth schemes to give a starting comparison on how good these 4 training schemes are.

Points on the below schemes are based on how much they increased attributes across the board. Such as 174 points means that over all the adult players in the squad in the first team and reserves, there were 174 points added over the players overall.

Top 5 Adult Schemes
DarkStarr's Training 2008 (239 points)
Tugs Training 2008 Adult (195 points)
Built-in Regime (174 points)
CMFrenzy (164 points)

Top 5 Youth Schemes
Tugs Training 2008 Youth (217 points)
Built-in Regime (178 points)

Some scheme are really easy to notice the difference between, some of them might be pants but what I did notice in some of them is that they keep the old players from dropping stats very fast, whilst some of the better ones with the most stat increases drop stats dramtically from older players so maybe it's linked in that respect.

Notes
Columns that have a purple header main it's a critical stat for that position, headers that have an orange stat mean it's not a critical stat for the position but it's used on variations of the position - such as DL and WBL different a bit, so do DM and MC.

Players that have a "+" in red next to their name in the training schemes mean this player was injured for a period of more than 1 week whilst testing the scheme so please bare that in mind when looking at the results of the test. Unfortunately injures have to occur and whilst it probably won't make huge discrepancies it will make some.

The only injuries I record are the injuries that last more than 1 week, injuries that last 1 week or less are not recorded as they are very minor injuries and might not be down to the training scheme and more down to a knock picked up in a match.

The same save game is used for all the testing of the schemes, using the same players and the same coaches for all the test to ensure that it's done as fairly as possible.

There might be one or two wrong numbers, but I double check the numbers where possible to ensure this doesn't happen however if you spot something that is glaringly obvious as a wrong number (ie. like -6 or +6 or above out from the original number then it's most likely incorrect) then please let me know so I can fix it.

Test Info
Game: Football Manager 2008 (English)
Version: 8.0.2 PC Boxed
Team: Sunderland AFC
Facilities: Top
Coaches: 7 Coaches, 2 Youth
Test Time: 7th July 2007 - 14th January 2008 (6 months, 7 days)

I picked Sunderland mostly because they aren't extremely good in training facilties, their coaches are average and all round they are in the middle for higher end teams. I didn't want to use someone like Manchester United and/or full 7 star coaches because it might hamper the results somewhat for teams that are 2 leagues lowers, so I kinded wanted a middle ground.

Coaches Info

All workloads are "Light".

Adult
Strength: ***
Aerobic: ***
GK: *******
Tactics: **
Ball Control: ****
Defending: ****
Attacking: ***
Shooting: ***
Set Pieces: ***

Youth
Strength: ***
Aerobic: ***
GK: *******
Tactics: ****
Ball Control: ****
Defending: ****
Attacking: ****
Shooting: ***
Set Pieces: ****

Download
You can download the most up to date spreadsheet below. There are two versions, the 2007 version and 97-03 compatbility version, it lets you browse it in two versions of Excel if you aren't using the 2007 version then you can still use the compatability version. Although please note that the spreadsheet was designed in 2007 version so there might be slight issues in the 97 - 03 version,.

'07 Version
'97 - '03 Version

[CheeseElemental]

I am looking for more schemes to test, so if you think you have a good scheme and would like me to test it I would gladly run it through my save game and record the results

Could you do Tug's training? (for full time players that is)

[jay-]

Yeah I'll pick it up later today and run it through, takes about an hour per schedule so should have it done later tomorrow / early tomorrow.

[EDIT]: Finished Tugs Training 2008 Adult - scored 195 points, and total of 21 above the 2nd best place. Tugs training overall is very good Noteable I found that Tugs senior training for defensive players is quite superb.

[Intrinsic]

Nice idea, how about DarkStarr's http://www.thedugout.tv/community/sh...ight=darkstarr

I use that along with Tug's but both with various tweaks for my own team.

Edit: I will add that with some of my tweaks under 8.0.1(yet to play with 8.0.2) using Tugs/DarkStarr i managed to get some amazing results BUT this was with Mansfield and was tailored to my team, so no clue if it'd work well with other teams like Prem quality sides.

[jay-]

Running DarkStarr's training scheme through at the moment, just waiting for it to finish then I'll record the results and upload the new spreadsheet and give the verdict.

[jay-]

DarkStarr's training scheme is very high quality, best one yet by a good margin. Came in with 239 points, which is a huge 44 points above Tugs and a phenominal 65 points above the default built-in training scheme and 75 above CMFrenzy.

[Intrinsic]

Cool thanks jay, out of interested have you tried running these schedules multiple times to see if there is much variance in the numbers produced?

[jay-]

I did with the original 4 schemes I tested, I ran them three times each (since I did one youth and 1 adult at the same time this was not that time consuming) and they roughly came out the same as what they came out in the results above, but they did different slightly mainly due to injuries which are a bit random.

[bluemuppet]

wow dude you are now my god

[Steeler]

nice work mate.. i won't mind seeing more people like you on TD

[Intrinsic]

Any chance you can save that out in a "normal" version of the xls format? ie not xlsx, something like 97/2000 format.

[jay-]

Can't unfortunately, when I tried it the program threw lots of problems and stuff that would break if I saved it in .xls format for 97/2000 compatability. Will try to find away to solve that but can't promise anything.

[march]

Whoa, if that darkstar one comes out anything like as good as that for me I'll be well happy! Nice work jay you're a legend.

[Intrinsic]

Originally Posted by jay-

Can't unfortunately, when I tried it the program threw lots of problems and stuff that would break if I saved it in .xls format for 97/2000 compatability. Will try to find away to solve that but can't promise anything.

It'll say that regardless, it's just as a warning, if it's just simple stuff typed out then it's a non-issue, you only really need to be careful if you've got huge complex forums/macro's which i doubt is the case here. You could even dump it out as csv.

[jay-]

Okay I just disregarded the error, so I've saved it as a '97 - '03 version although just bare in mind some of it might have errors although at first glance I couldn't see any problems (the most part of the errors would be the conditional formatting). I've included a link to the '97 - '03 compatability workbook in my first post at the bottom.


*** Still looking for more training schemes to test if anyone wants to get any tested to add to the comparison ***

[Steeler]

sorry.. i had a schedule but Darkstar's training exceeds it so i think you don't have to waste your time with it..
keep up the good work

[DarkStarr]

I kicked tugs ass


Nice work Jay

[Steeler]

yes Dark .. now it's official.. Tug is history in the full time training corner.. when will you post a youth scheme?
because tug is still youth champion

[CheeseElemental]

Is it possible to analyze training schemes by position? Just so we know specifically which trainings are best by position.

[Intrinsic]

Take a look at the spreadsheet, that should give you a pretty good idea.

And i'm thinking about uploading my tweaked version of DarkStarr's/Tug's Youth for testing, i've had really strong results with it so far, but is geared towards LL sides. It needs a bit of tweaking though still, as i didn't give enough priority for Tactics. It could be complete arse for all i know compared to the std DS/Tug ones, but does well for me as a LL side

[DarkStarr]

Originally Posted by Steeler

yes Dark .. now it's official.. Tug is history in the full time training corner.. when will you post a youth scheme?
because tug is still youth champion

I might just do that

[Steeler]

Originally Posted by DarkStarr

I might just do that

we ca hardly wait

[ORiN]

Does the comparison includes comparison between position schedule of different set of schedules.

[jay-]

Originally Posted by ORiN

Does the comparison includes comparison between position schedule of different set of schedules.

It shows positions differently such as it'll group all the defenders and midfielders and attackers in seperate areas so you can see which worked better on each schedule, but I haven't written in which schedule I assigned each player from each schedule. Maybe something I should have done originally, but can't do this now unfortunately. I did assign the players to the most relative schedule however, such as DL were set to full backs, AML's were set to wingers and so forth.

[lordyscfc]

quality work fella!!

[Eiler]

If you have the time, maybe you could test The Next Diaby's "TND Training 2008 Version 2.5, workload optimised" training from FM-britain?

The thread

[DirtyACE]

I agree with Eller. I'd like to see a test result from The Next Diaby's 2.5 Training too.

[ThokeGM]

The TUG training regimes are shite. I wont lie. The Tall Striker doesnt train heading, Fast Strikers not training dribbling, Midfielders not having high passing and there's many more examples.

Seriously, its garbage and you're better off looking at what stats each training category improves and then decide for yourself what aspect you want improved.

[MiKi]

Oh you play eve online TGM? Cool i play that too

Anyway Tugs seemed to work ok for me. tho i must agree that after looking at the schedule i think it definitely has room for improvement...

[Brutos]

I use drakstrr and tweak it

[marinade]

Help a thicky - I have downloaded DarkStarr's schedule - how do I check it out/use it?

I've never added anything (tactics etc) to the database or used the data editor etc so be patient with me!